Hello again, welcome to the first week of October. Im loving the spooky vibes and strong pumpkin energy the fall has wrought, although it was a little steamy here in NYC this past weekend. Summers last gasp. But Im not complaining! I put the heat on in my car for approximately three minutes last week and was sad.
Enough about my SAD, though, and more on audio. In todays newsletter we discuss the fan reaction to Spotifys latest exclusive move, along with Patreon looking to make its own original podcasts, and more. Off we go.
Gimlets Heavyweight is becoming a Spotify exclusive, and the fans are mad
Heavyweight, one of the longest-running Gimlet Media shows, is becoming a Spotify exclusive next month, five years after it began and two years after the Spotify / Gimlet acquisition. Host Jonathan Goldstein made the announcement (through a dynamically inserted ad for people listening outside the app) within the first couple minutes of the new season premiere.
I get that when you find something working for you, you dont want to rethink it, he says. But that said, Ive also made the change over to Spotify, and its super intuitive, its easy to use, and I really like it. So if you enjoy the show and you want to support us and the work that we do, I truly do hope that youll join us on Spotify.
As is sometimes the story with these moves, the fans are upset, and perhaps because of the seemingly Very Online listenership for this specific show, theyre tweeting.
Im embedding a couple tweets here, so you can gauge the reaction for yourselves, but broadly speaking, they arent so warm and fuzzy.
Theres plenty more feel free to check them out here. I reached out to Spotify for clarification on why Heavyweight is going exclusive and what the goal is with this move, and a spokesperson referred me to this August blog post, which posits to offer an explanation but says basically nothing. The clearest sentence that could pass as an explanation is maybe this one: We believe that streaming is the future of all audio listening and that our technology can provide the opportunity for the podcast ecosystem to grow, innovate, and ultimately create more opportunities for creators across the globe.
Reading between the lines here: Spotify doesnt want you to download episodes and therefore receive either baked-in podcast ads or dynamically inserted ones. Instead, it wants to own the entire advertising pipeline, which it can only do if you stream on Spotify. I assume you readers are familiar with its Streaming Ad Insertion tech, which you can read more about here, but essentially, it targets ads on the fly as individual listeners stream, and this ad targeting relies on Spotify data about listeners. Therefore, if youre listening on Apple Podcasts or Pocket Casts or anywhere else, Spotify misses its opportunity to leverage the data it collects to not only serve better ads, but in the case of Gimlet shows, also sell more of them. Plus, you listening on Spotify means it also has a better chance of converting you into a paying subscriber, or at the very least, it begins your personal data trail.
The open question is whether angering some fans is worth the tradeoff, and for Spotify, the answer appears to be yes. Im sure Heavyweight will lose some listenership even Joe Rogan, who was never on the platform before going exclusive and thereby could have stood to gain some audience from his deal, might have lost a substantial chunk of his listenership. In this case, Spotifys trading in some of Heavyweights listeners for the opportunity to make some cash. Unfortunate for those who dont want to switch, but this is just how the industry operates right now.
Speaking of Spotify...
Twitch and Warner Music Group will launch exclusive music channels
This bit of news happened last week, but I wanted to be sure to mention it here. Warner Music Group and Twitch reached an agreement thatll bring some of the music giants artists to Twitch through new channels, as well as exclusive original programming on the livestreaming platform. Per Oana Ruxandra, chief digital officer and EVP of business development at WMG, in the press release: Its clear that Twitch is an indispensable space for all types of creators to connect with their fan communities. Our partnership creates an on-ramp for artists to come onto the service with strong support from Twitch, opening up an entirely new source of incremental revenue.
Of course, music is audio, but why do we care about this move here? Well, for one, multiple platforms see livestreaming audio as a business opportunity. Amazon itself is reportedly working on some sort of live audio product apart from Twitch, while Greenroom, Spotifys live social audio app, was billed at launch as a place for musicians, podcasters, and creators more broadly to connect with fans for exclusive experiences. This Twitch deals trips up Spotifys whole dream.
Not only does Twitch appeal to a much-desired demographic young people but its a massive, global platform. Much of this audio war is about being the main place people spend their time, whether it be listening to a podcast, having a conversation with a respected professional, or streaming music. Spotify could, of course, still have WMG musicians on Greenroom, which I assume will eventually be an in-app experience, but an exclusive content deal with Twitch doesnt make that as easy.
Ill also point out here just how essential it is that these platforms figure out monetization. Twitch creators sell subscriptions to their channels, collect tips, and distribute ads, of course while getting a cut of it all. Meanwhile, Spotifys still figuring out how to help creators monetize at every level. Its looking to sell more podcast ads for more people, and Greenroom appears to factor into this strategy, too. All of which is to say, I have a feeling Spotify wasnt happy to see this deal announced, and Ill be watching how it and other platforms react to the news.
Of course, when were talking about the creator economy we have to mention Patreon, and it also has a bit of news this week.
Patreon seeks original podcasting content
Bloomberg reported late last week that Patreon, which has historically allowed creators to sell subscriptions to their work, is apparently now looking to finance its own original content. The strategy appears to be windowing the content for an exclusive period of time to Patreon itself. Now, unfortunately, this is all we have in the way of details, so Ill leave this one short and hope we hear more in the coming weeks.
I got a few more short ones and then well wrap up!
Enjoying this story? Hot Pod is a newsletter from The Verge that delivers news, analysis, and opinions on the audio industry written by Ashley Carman. The weekly Tuesday issue is free, and you can subscribe to two additional Hot Pod Insider newsletters per week for / month or / year.
NPR workers negotiate a new contract
NPR staffers have ratified a new collective bargaining agreement with the company. The union tweeted the highlights, but among them are the guarantee that NPR will advertise the salary for in-union jobs on listings; increased salary minimums; and an agreement to improve its policies when it comes to addressing online harassment. I look forward to seeing the full contract! I imagine itll serve as a reference point for future podcast / audio unions negotiations.
The Athletic has been burning through cash
Weve been tracking The Athletic here at Hot Pod given its ambitious podcast strategy that involves multiple localized and national shows. According to The Information yesterday, however, the company burned through million between 2019 and 2020. This, the publication says, surpassed its million in revenue during that time period. It apparently has enough cash to cover its costs for the next eight months, which could explain why its been trying to find an acquirer at a price of more than 0 million. Best of luck, and I hope these podcasters land on their feet.
Now, finally, I dont typically cover content deals but sometimes the extraordinary happens...
Lindsay Lohan is becoming a podcaster
The early aughts are back, and apparently, it comes with a podcasting twist. First, Paris Hilton invested in the unfortunately named Podz, which sold to Spotify, and now, here comes Lindsay Lohan with a Studio71-made podcast. The unnamed show will be released in late 2021 or early 2022, and Studio71 says itll be the place she shares her authentic voice while listeners will get a chance to experience a never-before-seen side of the megastar. I thought I heard her authentic voice on Speak, her debut album, but I suppose I can accept a podcast, too.
Alright, a bit of a long one today, but Ill be back on Thursday for our paying subscribers. As always, if youd like to keep up with all the audio and podcasting news, scoops, and analysis, click here. See you soon!
Comments
The situation for Heavyweights creators is more complicated than just a do or dont take the money decision. Spotify owns the rights to their show so the choice for them is make the show on Spotify or dont make it at all. That said, Goldsteins comment feels pretty disingenuous to me, clearly an endorsement delivered with a healthy amount of corporate pressure. In hindsight Gimlets whole startup-style podcast company idea seems to have had a mostly negative long-term effect on their ability to maintain quality shows and talent.
By Nicholi
on 10.05.21 9:54am
I knew losing shows would be the inevitable conclusion of Spotify acquiring Gimlet, but it still hurts when they do it.
By futurejohn
on 10.05.21 9:59am
This is just sad Im a paying Spotify customer, this just proves that their plan is to destroy the industry rather than compete.
By friseurtermin
on 10.05.21 10:52am
Im a little confused why this upsets people. I dont really listen to podcasts, but I keep seeing Spotify making various ones exclusive. Does this then require people to subscribe to Spotify to listen to them, or just use the app?
By mitchartz
on 10.05.21 11:00am
A little bit of both. Since Spotify eliminates a RSS feed, it makes it exclusive to their app (legally) and their piping of ad content will be enough to better detect your tolerance for ads or buy in. Not against it from a capitalism perspective, but not this half baked. No one is competing as fast for them to be this sloppy.
By theklr
on 10.05.21 11:02am
Just use the app. But Spotify flat-out sucks for managing and consuming podcasts, and rather than make improvements to the controls and features that may actually make it competent, they instead just pour millions into buying up shows people like to try locking them into their app instead.
By boss.king
on 10.05.21 11:04am
This. I pay for and use Spotify for music, but I cant stand using it for Podcasts (I use Pocket Casts). If a podcast goes Spotify-exclusive I stop listening because its just so irritating to use.
By ench
on 10.05.21 12:14pm
I have 2 issues with it myself:
By BaronBricks
on 10.05.21 12:13pm
To me, the issue is choice. Podcasts were built around an open standard (RSS feeds) that enabled you to choose whatever podcast player you want. When someone invents a better podcast player, I switch to using it instead. That kind of freedom isnt possible with Spotify-exclusive content, so I sadly wont listen to it.
This is the third Gimlet podcast I used to listen to regularly to make the switch to Spotify exclusive.
Regarding Goldsteins comment: its hard to tell how serious he is without listening to it. Hes made some pretty hilarious ad reads that are clearly in a different voice to mean that hes not serious. Im curious to hear whether thats the case here, or whether hes claiming to be sincere.
By Wyse
on 10.05.21 1:04pm
Its not actually the cost; I pay for a few podcasts and get a private URL. Sometimes thats worth it.
The problem is the friction of switching back and forth between players. Im not a Spotify subscriber, but even if I were, I wouldnt listen to my podcasts there. I have a podcast app that I pay for (Overcast) and I appreciate those dedicated features.
Im sure they ran the numbers and decided that losing listeners like me was worth it, but I will absolutely not be upending my podcast life just to follow one show. (If that sounds dramatic, I listen to hours and hours of podcasts every day, mostly while Im riding or working out. I listen to more podcasts than music, by far.)
By realitymonster
on 10.11.21 11:28am
Podcast goes to Spotify exclusive I stop listening to podcast.
That market is way too glutted with quality options for time-killing audio for me to pursue (and financially support) that companys shit decisionmaking.
By Larry_O
on 10.05.21 1:07pm
If it doesnt have an RSS feed, it isnt a "podcast" anymore, its just proprietary streaming audio. Proprietary streaming audio existed before the open protocol named "podcast" was invented.
So, all these stories are getting it wrong: these things arent "exclusive podcasts," they should be described as "so-and-so abandons being a podcast to become a private digital audio show."
By DanShockley
on 10.11.21 11:38pm
1. When Gimlet was bought, an announcement was made that those podcasts that were already available outside of Spotify would stay available outside of Spotify. I see now that that was a lie.
2. Spotify is horrible at managing and playing podcasts and it is not the first app I think of when I want to listen to a podcast. That means that while I may want to listen to Spotify exclusive podcasts, I probably wont because I launch my podcast app when I want to listen to a podcast, and when I launch Spotify its because I want to listen to music. Those Spotify exclusives will just kind of get forgotten about. I just looked and there was one that I did listen to 2 of the 11 episodes.
Ashley is correctthey traded listeners for more money. Thats their decision to make, and I suspect they will make it again.
By nosidam
on 10.05.21 1:36pm
Spotify isnt horrible for dealing with podcasts, because the radio shows in Spotify are not podcasts. Those are just private digital radio shows. Its pretty pathetic that they cant make a decent interface to listen to them, though, since they have control over the whole thing.
It really shows the value of an open standard like actual podcasts use you can pick your own player, and the players have to actually compete based on working well. They cant lock you in.
By DanShockley
on 10.11.21 11:43pm
This is the future for (almost) all podcasts. There will be a competing group of subscription-only podcast providers, each with their own app and slate of celebrities and niches. RSS-based podcasts will exist, but that in itself will be a sub-niche of podcasting, and will be greatly overshadowed by the 900-pound gorillas in the space.
The reason I know this is because I exist on planet earth, and thats how things work around here. If capatalism hasnt squeezed all the piss out of your favorite thing yet, just wait until your favorite thing gets a little more popular.
By mobile_phoney
on 10.05.21 5:17pm
Strange if its a move related to ad revenue though: reducing the maximum size of your audience isnt a great way to max your ad rates, even if you own the ad delivery technology.
Spotifys main problem is too many minutes spent listening to music, which is expensive for them. I dont see how this solves that problem. More users listening to podcasts would help, but it would help Spotify no matter where those podcasts were listened toas long as it means less time for music.
By nrmaharaj
on 10.07.21 3:06pm
They want you to subscribe, but listen to other stuff. I dont subscribe (I use Apple Music) so theyre thinking that if I really wanted to keep listening to Heavyweight, maybe Id be inclined to download Spotify and decide that I like it so much that Id switch. Thats a stupid plan, IMO, but Im sure thats their rationale.
But
1. I get Apple Music as part of my Apple One subscription, so Im not going to ALSO get Spotify
2. I wouldnt listen to podcasts in Spotify anyway; literally everyone Ive read today says its terrible at podcasts, and my dedicated option is better.
So I dont know why they think this is a winning plan. As you say, people listening to podcasts helps their bottom line either way, since they dont have to pay for a stream. This is more likely to just make fewer people listen to the show, since even Spotify subscribers dont seem jazzed about this news.
By realitymonster
on 10.11.21 11:33am